Speak Out : Hate Crime And Gay Bashing

We take things for granted when we live in a big city with a large gay population. We assume everyone is open to our lifestyle. Gay bashings and hate crimes don’t only happen in rural places where people are less educated and less tolerant. 

Just because you are in the middle of Boystown, WEHO, the Village, Earls Court or wherever, doesn’t mean you are immune from attack.  Gay bashings can happen anywhere but some can also be avoided. 

It’s 1 AM at the latest hot spot and you decide to head home.  You get outside and it’s a nice night so you decide to walk home. You walk a few blocks and a car full of guys drives by and yells FAG, what do you do? Unless you have act up walking with you, I would suggest nothing. What happens if you yell something back like “FUCK OFF” and they turn around? Are you ready to get your ass kicked?

How about this, you and your new lover are in a different part of town having dinner at some new trendy spot. You finish up and are waiting for a cab outside the restaurant. You lean in and give each other a kiss and a pat on the ass. Nothing out of the normal in Gay Central. Some punks are walking by and catch your act, they come up to you and start harassing you, are you prepared?

I am not saying don’t be yourself or deny who you are,  I am saying be aware of your surroundings and act accordingly. You against 5 guys on a street corner doesn’t make sense.

Always be prepared for the unexpected.

g skorich aka eastvalleyoral

(If you wish to share a story, something happy or sad that happened to you, you found a lover and want to tell the world, you just learned something tragic, one of your relatives passed away etc please send us your story and we will share it in the Speak Out section. Email blog at )

There are 40 comments

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  1. Imajem

    I think you are right, just keep walking, don’t even look up.
    Suggestion for a blog: How to get the guys to read more than your cock size on your profile.

  2. Joe

    I would agree with this post. I think the worse form of gay bashing is what we do to each other. We will give someone HIV just to get off and not think anything about it, justify it somehow. “It is a choice, stay out of my business” Give me a break with that crap — we should know better.
    We bash each other with age requirements to say hi , people block on here because you smiled or whatever. We treat each other far worse than the outside world does. It is amazing things have progressed in society so far in such a short time. Isn’t it about time we progress as well?

  3. eyesofblue1972

    Imajem guys like that aren’t worth your time there is so much more to a person than the size of their dick.

    In response to the question: I am a no drama kind of guy. If I feel there is some coming, I will go the other way. If I feel threatened I would leave the situation the safest way possible. I am a very alert individual when it comes to my surroundings and if I sense danger I would just get out of there before anything bad could happen. If I found myself being harassed by someone I would just ignore it. Yes it’s difficult but it really is the best way to respond because violence is never a solution.

  4. Robert

    Joe, I would have to agree with you 100%. Just because I tell someone they have a nice profile doesn’t mean I think we could be compatible but a thank you wouldn’t be an awful thing to respond to. No everyone looks the same, acts the same – how boring life would be then? When your profile says you are “looking for friends”, is there a look requirement for friends too? I accept people for who they are not their looks. Now, if they act like an ass, then that’s different.

  5. MARK

    I agree with Joe, we as gay men have enough internal problems, treating each other, like pieces of shit, so why not just take it from some gay-bashers? We treat each other with disrespect everyday, the young, take offence if your older, and just say hello, where are we going guys? Is this really the direction we want to take down lifes road? The second someone sees your age,and they are a primadonna, forget it! That is so sad. Where would the new generation of gays, be without the pioneers, of being an older openly gay man?

  6. atomickiwis

    I agree with Joe. We are becoming our own worst enemies. Our community spends far too much time focusing on someone’s age, weight, style of clothing, hair style(or lack of hair), HIV status, job and social standing. I have witnessed on countless occasions perfectly nice guys get dumped at the bar because they are not the most attractive guy in the bar. I have personally been bullied because of my HIV status and the fact that I refuse to wear expensive brands of clothing. We as a community need to pull it together and be a community. How can we be pissed at straight people for bullying us when we are doing so much worse to each other. Its one thing to be bullied for being gay, but to be bullied based on looks, style, age weight etc.. is so much more painful. Call me an ass, but I would much rather be called a fag than be made fun of by people in my own community, people that are supposed to be supporting one another.



  8. Jayson

    And this is why you take self defense classes and you get your concealed weapons permit. If someone is harassing you, try to ignore it. But if it continues, you have to stand your stand you’re ground. If someone attacks you, you fights back. And either you defend yourself and walk away from the incident, or you get sent to the hospital or killed. I personally have no problem sending some guy to the morgue, if it meant protecting my own life or the life of my partner.

  9. Cory

    What about Adam4Adam set an example and eliminate the Block Him button? This article is worthless as long as this site keeps accommodating immature hate among its own members.

    • blog

      Cory, block button is perfect like it is. As you know some people are very immature and keep on sending emails over and over and over and over….
      Block button is there for that.

  10. Bosa_Nova82

    First off, I definitely agree with Joe about the “self bashing” yet having unprotected sex is a personal choice… Even though a lot of guys on A4A act childish I would say that its safe to assume we are all grown and can make a simple decision that could possibly changing our lives. secondly, I grew up In the DC metropolitan area where homosexuality is more tolerant… to an extent but, I ended up attending college WV where people are more ignorant to those who are different. Yes, I’ve been called a queer among other things and those comments were dismissed. It was hard adapting to the new area but I quickly surrounded myself with good friends who are more cultured. I don’t put myself in situations and I always stay aware.

  11. Matt

    This bothered me: “Gay bashings and hate crimes don’t only happen in rural places where people are less educated and less tolerant. ” That makes it sound like people in big cities are better educated and more tolerant. That type of judgmental negativity toward rural people is PRECISELY the mindset from where hate crimes and gay bashing stem. If a person thinks others are lesser than–as the quote demonstrates–then there is “nothing wrong” (in their minds) when people commit hate crimes and engage in gay bashing.

  12. sjohnson

    but in the worse case when you have no escape or backup….no flight/fight like hell with whatever means you have. i’m sure the thugs/bashers have backup. don’t just stand there and get you ass kicked

  13. tantrikatholipig


    I would agree with this post. I think the worse form of gay bashing is what we do to each other. We will give someone HIV just to get off and not think anything about it, justify it somehow. “It is a choice, stay out of my business” Give me a break with that crap — we should know better.
    We bash each other with age requirements to say hi , people block on here because you smiled or whatever. We treat each other far worse than the outside world does. It is amazing things have progressed in society so far in such a short time. Isn’t it about time we progress as well?

  14. Joseph

    What we all need is more education of how to treat our own people, and more common sense to avoid danger around us, if we actually LEARN to be civilized we definitely will notice a difference in the world!!!!
    My humble opinion 🙂

  15. Kevin

    I think that situation would be terrifying. Fortunately, I haven’t had to deal with that because I think a lot of people wouldn’t call me “gay” if they saw me walking down the street. I am a masculine queer, but still yet that is no reason to think a gay bashing couldn’t happen to me.

  16. Emanuel12

    I agree with Joe on here as far as a4a. Most so called gay guys on the site is so out left for all the wrong reasons till it almost sucks to get online. You see the same guys almost every day, even the new ones that enter have mad game, lies, drama. To block someone for just saying hello or viewing your profile? Come on guys it’s not that serious, if one hits you up and says, hello….then speak. If anything becomes of it, so be it. The age/race thing needs to completely go away. We should all get along, you have all these color contrast type guys, for white, we’re all one, we all bleed red. Find a nice guy, no matter the color or even if its some age difference, step outside the box, search one’s heart, then most won’t come back, or come back hurt. You have to give a little in order to get a lot when expected. The gay bashing thing, yes I truly agree, you have to be very very careful of your surroundings, you don’t ever know whose looking or looking to start a fight. Best thing to do in any public place, be mindful and respectful, keep the off the wall moves, gestures at home or in a place it’s accepted. Hopefully, no one will get hurt. Fellows, let’s keep it real and respectful, so we all can keep living and try to be accepted by most. Sometimes we degrade ourselves they way we act in public. Some I’ve seen really need to turn the torch down, stop flaming so much, it’s not cute, it’s a shame for and to the most of us.

  17. JR

    Wow what a topic. I too try to always be aware of where I am and who is around me. I Avoid a bunch of guys comin down the street or a crowd of them standing together. I have two funny stories about this subject. First, I had a guy beat me up in Highschool for being Queer or Gay and many years later he was at a party and he said he was sorry and he was in the closet and ended up fucking me at his place that night. Second, I had a guy make fun and tease me in College and last year he wrote me a letter and ask for my forgiveness and I met him for a drink and he has come out and we ended up having sex. I think alot of these guys who harass and bash us are gay and don’t know what to do with these feeling and they lash out.

  18. Aquarius

    It’s not just ‘gay bashing’, it’s the crime up there in general. Boystown is not a safe place anymore, especially during warmer weather. I stopped going in 2008. I haven’t been able to bar hop or go clubbing/shopping up there in 5 years thanks to the thugs that are running wild up there. They don’t just lurk in alleyways or secluded areas, they have been known to rob/attack people in broad daylight in busy, high traffic areas. Verbal ‘hate’ crap like being called ‘fag’, the least of my worries compared to a group of thugs wanting to steal my phone, money, assault me, now THAT’S a problem. The lack of policing in that area during summer months, that’s a problem too. Now I stay away.

  19. jay tee

    we should all carry pepper spray. sometimes just ignoring people does not work. some will come up to you and get in your face with their hate. that’s when u blast them with pepper spray and run while u listen to them cry and cough.

  20. john

    I don’t like violence but if it can’t be avoided I can and will (and have) defended myself extremely well. this may not be the be the case for everyone and I am not condoning violence with violence in any way, if you can walk away do so without hesitation, call the police if necessary. stay safe but be yourself. what i’m trying to say is,it sucks that in this so called enlightened age of reason people still feel the need to find or use others as a scapegoat for their anger/inadequacies and such. i wish it were not so.

  21. collegekid212

    About two weeks ago I was out with my roommate and it was just after bar close. We stopped at a pizza place to get a bite to eat. A person in line behind us mentioned we make a cute couple. I hear this all the time but my roommate being a strong minded straight guy didn’t take it so well. After a couple words back and forth, I calmed him down and we left.
    As we were walking home the guy that had made the comment before caught up with us and had brought two of his friends. In no time it was me holding back my roommate from punching the kid across the face. Just as I thought I had the situation under control, the kid calls me a faggot. I stopped holding my friend back, ran up, and punched him in the face.
    This wasn’t the most constructive thing to do but it was half anger and half liquid courage. Had I been sober, I would have totally approached the situation differently. Either way I have a feeling it’ll be a while before that kid drops the f bomb again. That, or instead of some gay kid beating him up, it’ll probably be some 200lb man.

  22. Hunter0500

    “It’s 1 AM at the latest hot spot … you decide to walk home.”

    No one should be on the street at 1:00 a.m., especially not alone.

    A straight guy alone. A woman alone. A gay alone. All would be potential victims of attack at that time of night. Robery, rape, or harassment.

    Being gay has little to do with it.

  23. eastvalleyoral

    @Matt I should have said “where people are less educated and less tolerant of the gay lifestyle”.

    @Joe you are right, gays can be horrible to each other. there is something that happens to people when they get in front of a computer. a perfectly nice guy can become a total prick.

    thanks for the feedback

  24. StayGold

    i carry a razor blade in my shirt pocket and a file in my boot, some het breeder fuckas try and step to me i’ll slice em up. Faggot’s ain’t weak and it’s bullshit we’re projected like that. Sucks we gotta resort to smearing someone’s blood down the wall of their hotel room to get our point across.

    I may suck dick, drink piss, and take massively wide objects up my ass but at the end of the day i’m a man, and i fight dirty like a man. Call me a faggot and expect me to; A. own up to it proudly, and B. cut your fucking eyes out of your skull and force feed them to you.

  25. Scarpien

    jayson: I agree with you 200% If more gay men thought like you and I do and stop acting like damsels in distress the number of gay bashings would drop dramatically. First off, these guys target gay men because they don’t view gays as men to begin with. Hell, I’d speculate that even the majority of lesbians know how to handle themselves whenever anyone messes with them so why are gay men seemingly lining up to play the victim? It’s like they live in Wonderland and don’t have a clue it’s a big bad world out there. If you truly love yourself you’ll learn how to protect yourself, not just from contracting STDs and HIV but from being bashed by ignorant, and most often, closet gays in denial.
    I’m not advocating we go around bullying people but if you’re minding your own business and some closet queen with something to prove to his “boys” contemplates getting up in your face, he/they’d better know what they’re getting into.
    It’s way past time more gay men turn the tables on these jerks and fight fire with fire.

    Collegekid212: you did the right thing. Never apologize for defending yourself. Afterall, you tried several times to diffuse the situation but all too often, you just have to kick some azz to get respect. Sadly, it’s the only language most guys understand. I’m sure they’ll think twice before starting something with another gay man.

  26. John

    I have to agree with a lot of the posts on here…the gay culture does more gay bashing than any other group…life is already hard guys should be a little nicer to each other and treat each other better….just have common courtesy guys!

  27. Eric

    Well as they say sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me.

    Having said that, what these bullies are looking for is a reaction. Having been in a similar situation, I say what I say with a little practical experience. Now I will say I am not a small man. I stand 6′ tall and weigh in at about 250. I have worked public safety for 20 years. I am not easily intimidated but we all have our weakest point. No matter how big and bad we are, there is always someone bigger and badder. Always remember that.

    Now, back to the bullies. As for what they want, like I said, that’s a reaction. It’s a matter of control. They want to control you. Now, under some circumstances that could be kinky. This isn’t one of those situations. How you respond can make the situation resolve or spiral out of control. First thing first, learn to read body language. Learn to assess the situation quickly and accurately. Know your limitations.

    Be confident. Stand tall, stand proud of who you are. Most of us like to think our sexuality is who we are. Wrong. It is a part of us, yes, but it is not who we are. This will do a couple things. One it will show them you are not an easy target which is what they want. They don’t want a confident target. The other thing it does is it shows the world that you are a force to not be taken lightly. And in this case size doesn’t matter. Wether you are 5′ or 7′ confidence is key.

    The most important thing though is think before you act. Don’t be stupid and put yourself into a bad situation. There is safety in numbers. If you see a guy that was at the club/bar/restaurant etc you were at leaving alone, offer to have him walk with your group. Who knows, good things could come from it. 😉

    Now I also legally conceal carry. Yeah, that’s right, a fag packing heat, lmao. This option should be used as a last resort. Not everyone has this option available to them. If you carry, make sure you follow ALL laws regarding it and if you have to use your weapon make sure you have absolutely no other options.

    Just be careful but always be yourself. I am not an expert in this area just sharing my thoughts and experiences. Be safe all.

    Ok. That is all.

  28. Devin Gray MD

    I think that, in order for Adam4Adam to present this as a topic, they must first address the blatant hate and homophobia that is spread across so many of the pages on this site.

  29. David W. Bradburn

    I am not so sure the blog post had it quite right. Hate crimes or gay bashing are usually very well thought out and do not give the victim a chance to escape. Have we forgotten Matthew Shepherd? He was in a bar having drinks and the two guys who beat him to death and tied him to a fence were flirting with him. Posing as gay guys to lure him into their hate mongering plan. They even were friendly to him until they convinced him to ride with them perhaps for a pseudo three way. Then once they had him in their car it was all over. Most often, those who holler out racial slurs or homophobic phrases are doing it to impress their buddies and not to get into physically violent acts. That is why hate crimes are more premeditated and if convicted bring harsher penalties. We should not live our out lives in fear or change how we act in public to appease the majority. Because true hate crimes cannot be prevented by us but must be acknowledged as such by the authorities and then they must throw the book at them to make examples for others who might have plans to gay bash. In all honesty, look further back in our countries history and tell black folks they should have been less black to prevent the KKK or other American citizens from hating them so much they wanted them dead. Nope it is not quite that simple I’m afraid. I just say be proud of who you are and don’t live your life in fear. If someone or a group of cowards beat me up or take my life because they hate so badly, I don’t have to carry their karmic debt they do. And they will have to pay it back if not in this lifetime then the next! David B.

  30. Dan Ryan

    As comedian Ron White said, “I don’t know how many guys it would take to whip my ass… but I knew how many they were going to use, so I backed down from the fight.”

    Personally, I think every situation is different; if violence is unnecessary, just let it go. However, the fact is there could come a time that you have to retaliate to protect yourself… sometimes this is actually fighting and other times (most of the time, in my experience), it’s letting the person or person know you are willing to fight if need be. More than a few times, I have been physically threatened, words and posture have been enough to convince them I am not worth the time. If they have superior numbers, that can be a problem, but most people know kicking someone’s ass isn’t worth a black eye or going to jail. They’re bullies who pray on the weak and the best defense is to not appear weak.

    With that in mind, knowing how to defend yourself is key, because obviously if it comes to blows, you’ll need to know but just knowing alone will change your self confidence. It will make it easier to express you are not weak and if you can commicate, with words and posture, that you’re willing to go a round or two, most of the time they will back down. They are looking for your fear to captialize on, if not to just harass you but to gage how much resistance you would put up.

    Even if it’s taking a boxing class, you’ll learn how to throw a punch, keep in great shape, and probably meet a cutie or two that is also in great shape and if you find yourself on a street corner with him and you get harassed, you’ll know he knows how to throw a punch, too. 🙂

    As for everyone bitching about the gay community discriminating against each other, I agree this is a big problem but its nothing compared to the hate that fuels gay bashing and physical violence. Yeah yeah yeah blah blah blah we are mean to each other about a whole host of shallow things, but last I checked Matthw Shepard wasn’t tied to a fence and beaten to death because he wore clothes from Wal-Mart… so for the love of God, please stop twisting every forum about how terrible gay men have treated you and how “terrible” is A4A. No one makes you come to this site, if you don’t like it, don’t sign on to it. It’s that simple. And again, comparing it to gay bashing is not an even close to fair comparison. There is no gang of Gucci outfitted fags looking for non-Gucci outfitted fags stalking WEHO… this is life and death stuff, not what ever petty grievance you have with the gay community at large.

  31. ajbbincubus

    Never experienced gay bashing, thank goodness. But I feel bad for all the guys out there that feel so alone. It makes me want to be a super hero for us. Most people don’t know I’m gay until I lock lips with a guy then most of the people stare. I’m not scared to walk through any crowds of guys, cause most guys leave me alone, people think I look mean.. LOL!! So I have that protecting me. I hope the people out there getting harassed don’t give up.. just hold on, please..

  32. LLKoolKB

    I have been bullied growing up. I have been called “faggot, queer, gay;” you name it. I have been asked “are you gay” more times than I can count. I got to a point in my life that I have to stop living in denial and battle this out. Now, I can pick up on the tone and delivery of speech when people are trying to ask me. I just say “bisexual.” It’s wrong to bash people of anything.

  33. einathens

    i agree that each and every one of us must remain aware of our surroundings and be prepared to defend ourselves at all times.
    self-defense classes are wonderful training. until you’ve passed one, be ready to improvise:

    wearing hard-soled shoes? you can stomp a toe, break a kneecap, crush the testicles.
    keys? gouge the eyes.
    change or lip balm in your pocket? make a fist around them and you’ve got brass knuckles.

    be who you are but be aware of where you are. it only takes one person to turn a place into hostile territory.

    verbal taunts are best ignored and walked away from. and one of you can cellphone record the incident while the other calls the police.

    don’t try to reason with or outsmart your assailant, and don’t goad them any further. the shelflife of a martyr is notoriously short.

    i don’t understand how the topic of gay-on-gay verbal harassment got conflated into this one, nor how the block button comes into it all, but it should remain. get rid of the Delete Trace instead. if someone i’ve blocked visits my profile six times a day, i want to know. forwarned is forearmed.

  34. vafratboy

    I’m kinda appalled to see guys here equating someone young enough to be their son not talking to them as being the equivalent to a gay basher smashing their face in with a baseball bat! Really? Over dramatic much?

    I have an age requirement for a hello in my profile (though I’ll usually still reply for better or worse) because after years of having older guys contact me assuring me that they only wanted to be friends, I had precisely ONE who didn’t try to shift the conversation to sex within the first 5 messages. Secondly, I tend to have difficulty being close friends with people more than 10 years younger than me because we’re at different points in our lives with different maturity levels and experiences. Truely, 90% it’s gonna be the same with someone 10 years my senior as well. Which I suppose is why these guys always immediately want to direct the conversation towards sex.

    Anyhow, I’ve never taken a baseball bat and smashed these guys’ heads in, so for those of you who think you’ve been ‘bashed’ because some young guy didn’t want to sleep with you; step back and get some perspective!

  35. CuriousWarrior

    I find it interesting that a blog about “gay bashing/harassment” has become a forum for the childish behavior or individuals on A4A. I agree that getting ignored before you’ve even had a conversation sucks. However, do you really want to engage the immature, shallow, self centered guy in a conversation if that is his primary behavior pattern? Perhaps the ignore button is there as a way of allowing the people of substance to remain undamaged by the childish insults of others. Again, perhaps the reason for the ignore button is to block the overly needy people from being obsessive. I know the button is over used but lets think about it age is an issue in regard to friendship because of life experience and ability. A 50 year old has many more experiences then a 20 year old and the 20 year old is, in most cases, more energetic then a 50 year old.
    As far as appearance and being judged for how you look that is life and it isn’t isolated to the gay community. I would say that the lesson in regard to harrassment is to be authentic without being offensive. Also don’t be cowardly, learn to be confident in how you conduct yourself in any enviroment. Walk with friends, carry pepper spray, take self defence classes, and be alert at all times. With these strategies you should be able to live in comfort not cowardess. Also when you are ignored consider focusing on yourself for a second, try going for a walk to reflect why someone shallow may ignore you and then improve yourself.

  36. Seph

    I would like to point out that I totally agree with Joe, a lot of bashing in my opinion would cease if we first started with our community. For example, words are words to most people but to others those words really do hurt. And it’s interesting how a lot of homosexuals can easily refer to themselves or their friends as “fags” but as soon as someone from outside the community does it, it’s such an appalling act.

    This is from Eric’s post: “Yeah, that’s right, a fag packing heat, lmao.” Now, I am not picking apart your post since I loved your post and I do feel that being confident and not giving someone the satisfaction of a reaction is really the best you can do when violence is unneeded. However, I understood the context of your quote I posted, but I just wanted to show that people in our community do use these derogatory terms as if they are nothing, and I’m not saying that you do it in that fashion, Eric, since I’m speaking in general. My point is that the word in the context used towards another person, especially someone of homosexuality is often negative and it would be best if we removed it from our lexicon before we look down on those who use it towards us. It comes down to if people from the outside don’t see the respect that we feel that we deserve, why should they feel obligated to give it to us when we don’t owe it to ourselves first?

    Now on the subject of people not wanting to speak to specific people.. I am twenty-two, going on twenty-three late July and let me say that I typically date older men due to maturity, chemistry and experience. So I don’t personally think every young guy on here ignores older men, because I sure don’t. The only time I will not have a conversation with someone on this site is if I have to talk to their body part (specifically the genital area), if they are looking to hook up, or if they don’t understand the basics to how to have a conversation. So with that said I will actually chat with anyone since I don’t understand the need in a person to look/act/be a certain age/color in order to have a chat. It happens to me too, I think it’s silly. Then again a lot of guys on here are not looking to chat, they want to just get offline and get what they can get.

  37. josh

    My first time commenting on a article on here and I’ve been folkowing this blog pretty much from the beginning. I had to say something on this one. There you go Jayson & sarpien you told em right! Fight if you have to to they fuck with us cause cause they think all us gays are a bunch of pussies to begin with and the guys who are so quick to run away and turn the other cheek do nothing to help break that stereotype. I bet if some of these bashers started getting their ass beat they would reconsider b4 they fuck with the next fag lol

  38. Marie N

    I hid my crossdressing tendencies for many a long year, till I moved to WeHo and finally i thought, ‘here is a place where I’ll be tolerated, perhaps accepted with some personal dignity left’, Could not have been more wrong than if I was to walk out into the oilfield in a pink tutu and heels !!!! The ,those guys I term the ‘straight gays’ you know what I mean, westside residents of WeHo , not all for I’ll not blanket label any group of humans so, see crossdressers as the worst kind of ‘fetish’ (Oh how I despise that term), individuals so screwed up and off kilter they can’t tell you which way they go !!!!! Most incorrect and I must wholeheartedly agree with those commenters who advocate ignore taunts/teases but will throw down with any manjack who’s got enough balls to stand and fight !!!! P.S. I seen quite a few ‘girls’ pop those heels off and whup the tar outta some creep thought they were going to bash her

  39. jesse

    i agree with Joe and others here that say we ourselves are bashing ourselves , age , looks , name brands , is all gay guys look for nowadays , adam4adam should be more responsible for the kind of guys that come to this site , immature young boys , this is a hook-up site , not a advertising for your business ( massagers ) , guys wanting pay for sex ( prostitution ).this new gays in this world are too materialistic.

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